Series 2, Episode 3 of the Let’s Go Further podcast


As the further education sector looks forward to long awaited guidance on supporting transgender learners, transgender couple, Jake and Hannah Graf, have talked about the importance of that guidance coming from a place of inclusion and not politics.

…Trans people and trans youth, they exist, our identities are valid, we have existed forever. There are countless kind of medical journals that … say that supporting trans people through their transition has the best possible outcomes. And so any policy should start with that as a basis…you only have to look at any newspaper on any given day to know that the subject of transgender people has become a – in inverted commas – political issue. And when that happens you tend to get away from the objective view of what the right thing to do for a person is.

— Hannah Graf


Speaking on Transgender voices: listen and learn, the third episode in the second series of the Let’s Go Further podcast, produced by the Skills and Education Group, Jake also makes the point that despite the amount of media coverage given to transgender experiences, very little of it comes directly from transgender people.

“Everyone is talking about us. Everyone is talking about trans kids and trans young folks, and people being trans, and the threats of trans women, but no one’s actually talking to trans people.”

— Jake Graf


The couple also talk about their experience working with the charity Mermaids, which aims to support transgender, non-binary and gender-diverse young people. They explain they have heard from trans children who are now home-schooled due to the “vitriolic”, “dangerous” and “toxic” atmosphere experienced at school and college.


Jake, a multi-award winning director, writer and actor, knew from a very early age that he was a boy in a girl’s body. Growing up in the 1980s against the backdrop of section 28, Jake states that it wasn’t until the age of 28 that he finally transitioned and life “became worth living”. Hannah, a decorated officer with the British Army, talks openly about growing up with the “crushing weight” of hiding who she was and never having the confidence to tell anyone she was trans. The couple now have two children and are passionate ambassadors for the LGBTQIA communities.


Let’s Go Further is a podcast that aims to challenge the way we think about skills and education. Having focused on social mobility in series one, which was published in the autumn of 2022, the team are looking at issues around equity, diversity and inclusion throughout series two. The series is hosted by the Skills and Education Group’s Foundation Manager, Joe McLoughlin.


The Let’s Go Further podcast is produced by the Skills and Education Group in collaboration with Research Podcasts and is available wherever you receive your podcasts. You can follow the Skills and Education Group on Twitter @SkillsEduGroup and via their website.


Episode 3 will be published on Tuesday 16th May, 2023.


Tune into Series 2 of Let's Go Further and listen back to Series 1.

Let's Go Further together!